Pick School Game 1: Conclusion

September 21st 2009 at 23:32 by Loda

The night has arrived, music is faintly playing in the background and my laptop is as annoying as usual... I've just been playing two Ardm games in Pride.dota! The first game was really entertaining with a lot of random stabs, fights and kills. My omni swept down anyone who challenged him with his satanic + cuirass nothing could stop him!!! The second game was booring -.- so nothing to add there :D Won both though!

Allright, you have had your say! Eight heroes banned, ten heroes picked and a lineup that would somewhat cry out cookiecutter in our faces. But this is a good match to start with, and I will give you all my view of how the game may have been played. But first I'll summerise the picks!

Sentinel: fnatic

Bans: Tauren chieftain, rhasta, Dark Seer, Clockwerk goblin


Picks: Bane, Potm, Sand King, Shadow Priest, Slardar


Scourge: Aeon


Bans: Morphling, Batrider, Enchantress. Undying

Picks: Abbadon, Viper, Kunka, Lion, Tide

I'm believe that the strat you picked for fnatic was strat that is really strong in the hands of those players ^^ This is the kind of lineup we could play vs any team and any strat and still be able to win. Every single player has hero that they can play to its fullest and the lanephase will go well. By sending potm SK top we can be sure that all lanes will be able to handle on their own. I believe the best way for both teams to lane would be:

Top: SK, Potm vs Viper, Abbadon

This is a really even lane tbh, and even if people tend to think that abbadon + orb > all it is easy to underestimate the dual stun power of SK and Potm. Both also have great ways of escaping, but I believe that both sent and scourge will exchange about the same amount of kills and deaths while Viper is the one with the most cs.

Mid: Bane vs kunka

This should be an easy win for Bane imo, if a solo bane knows what he's doing there are not many heroes that would stand a chance here. Possibly the kunka will survive on the lane but he should be underfarmed if the Bane stays on lane.

Bot: SP, Slardar vs Lion, Tide.

This is prolly the lane that could look the most even, but I would much rather play the Slardar, SP lane than scourges Tide, lion. But since Aeon usually play really aggressive they could prolly be able to grab a few kills on this lane, but they wouldn't come out without losses.

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Even if it may sound that I find fnatics lineup to be much better, this is due to the fact that the heroes suit the team and It's not often Aeon plays a game as their lineup would make them do. Even if they are good at executing these strats they would loose a lot being kept into playing in one way. Their strat is stronger if consider hero vs hero and in 5on5 aswell. But I just believe that if Slardar get bkb and SK gets dagger its not much that will stop this gang combo, but I'm not really a fair judge :D It would be a game around 45 min long where it would be really tight all the time up until around 35 where we would fight with a Aegis on slardar, push and win!

What I would to see more of, is if you guys could pick something innovative, like a push strat etc, even if you don't know eachother! If the bans are just right, you could pick much much more than what people tend to do. For a team with less individual skill you should actually concentrate on these a bit different strats that you execute perfectly. This has been a reoccuring thing in the DotA scene, where a team wins a whole tournament, much cause of the strenght of the strat and playstyle. It's very important to pick the right hero for the right person etc!

Secret tip of the day is to farm the lanes in swift manner, but still concentrate on landing almost all the creeps. This is the easiest with heroes like SF, Potm, Qop etc. Get all creeps down low enough so they will die from a juke and then push the lane. This is mostly used in mid-game where the outer towers have fallen, but it's mostly better to just push out and then move around the map, than getting stuck on your lane lasthitting every single creep!

now come with thoughts on my view of the game etc

Cheers

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Marilyn
September 21st 2009 at 23:35 - Quote - Report
sick entry, PRECIS vad jag vill ha!!! you go bruschan!
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AS
September 21st 2009 at 23:44 - Quote - Report
I agree, I feel that Aeon would've picked fnatic's team instead of what we had them pick - it doesn't feel like them, especially with the Abbadon pick. fnatic has it because they're up against Aeon - swap the teams out with say Ravens or TeG and it might be a little more even.

Maybe you could do a part pick/ban, say ban 8, scourge picks 2, sent picks 3, time for scourge/commentators to pick - figure out best way to counter. Or build a preset team and have the commentators throw up a couple of teams, and you comment on the ones you think would work most.

Or even get the other lazy bums on dingblog to update their blogs and have them captain picking for EG/Ravens in one of these, 5 min tops :)
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Theo
September 21st 2009 at 23:48 - Quote - Report
Hi loda, good analysis of the lineups great blog. I am interested in your thoughts about 6.63 or 6.63b and why haven't you really played SF lately? I always enjoyed watching your SF before when you were in clan SK. etc etc. Also can you give a brief item guide that SF should get given the new patch 6.63/6.63b (due to phase/pipe having no armor bonus now, maybe the desolator/curiass build instead of the manta build would be viable?) I saw misery playing the lothar/deso/curiass build in 6.63 as well!
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KenXyz-
September 22nd 2009 at 04:02 - Quote - Report
Hey Loda, just a suggestion for the new version since it's so gank-oriented again:

PotM (Lane)
Sf (Lane)
NA (Lane)
Sand King & Lina (Constantly roam)

It'll be fun to see constant roam-kills and I think it is pretty viable. Three solid solo heroes coupled with strong spells should make kills rather easy. Maybe you could vary the roamers to VS, ES, Lion etc.

Or you could send a CM, Axe, and BM to cut the lane. Axe picks up most creep kills and BM spawn Spiderlings in one creep to attack the hero/heroes at the first tower. I miss you guys' global strat. Epic. :D

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Nathan
September 22nd 2009 at 04:14 - Quote - Report
Hey Loda, I agree with Theo. I first became your fan because I saw your amazing SF and just kept on watching you every time since then. You are a talented player. As for Theo's comment, I would think that getting manta is still better then going deso/curiass despite the fact of the new changes in 6.63. The reason for this is, manta is harder to play against, it has health/ms/dps/pushing uses as well as more farming uses. While deso is just strictly attack DPS. If you are disabled then the manta build is much more viable and useful compared to the desolator/curiass build. I would like to know Loda's input on the itembuild for SF in version 6.63b as well.

Cheers. Nathan.
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Nathan
September 22nd 2009 at 04:14 - Quote - Report
Hey Loda, I agree with Theo. I first became your fan because I saw your amazing SF and just kept on watching you every time since then. You are a talented player. As for Theo's comment, I would think that getting manta is still better then going deso/curiass despite the fact of the new changes in 6.63. The reason for this is, manta is harder to play against, it has health/ms/dps/pushing uses as well as more farming uses. While deso is just strictly attack DPS. If you are disabled then the manta build is much more viable and useful compared to the desolator/curiass build. I would like to know Loda's input on the itembuild for SF in version 6.63b as well.

Cheers. Nathan.
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Icehsm
September 22nd 2009 at 08:03 - Quote - Report
this was very cool and all, but what i really want is a

Sniper mini guide please <3333333333333333333333333
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Sphinx
September 22nd 2009 at 10:58 - Quote - Report
A pushing strat:

BANS - Undying, ES, TC, Clock

PICKS - Omni, Wl, Rhasta , Krobe, Brood

I was thinking;

TOP - Krobe + Wl
MID - Rhasta
BOT - Brood + Omni

The healers should babysit the pushers, and when Krobe + Rhasta reaches lvl 6 or 7, they should start push with Wl and Omni. When they push 1 lane, lets say TOP, Brood will spawn 1 million spiderlings and push the BOT tower.

As soon as Krobes and Rhastas ultis are rdy again, they push another lane with the healers.
I was thinking Omni and Warlock because of repel on Krobe / brood in late, and warlock cuz of heal spell, but also Infernal.

Comment please, this was just a thought.
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Xiaoliu100
September 22nd 2009 at 12:43 - Quote - Report
lol...cant believe the pick turned out to be exact same as that game in gamescon, the fans do know you well.
There also wasnt any counter picking by 'aeon'...since potm, slardar are so popular picks for fnatic what do u think Aeon would pick against that?
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IShotTheSheriff
September 22nd 2009 at 13:41 - Quote - Report
Yo, Loda! Listen dude, there is one question that I've always wanted to ask a "pro" and your blog give me the opportunity at last. Here it is: how do you tend to organise your hotkeys, especially the numpad - i mean do u use the side buttons of ur mouse or the keyboard? Because if u use the keyboard (i.e. q,z etc.) u lose some keys that you could assign for the skills. I just can't find the best way to do it! Sorry for the offtopic, thanks for yout answer in advance! :D
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Targo
September 22nd 2009 at 14:27 - Quote - Report
since her buff, i would start playing qop again
shes a really strong hero, shes a good ganger with her ss, with wave and screem she deals much damage in clashes and shes good in early, mid and lategame
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Loda
September 22nd 2009 at 14:47 - Quote - Report
I actually do play SF from now and then, but I don't know if I have any replays on my computer! When I get home from work today I'll check it out and mb I can link it or something :)I'm actually a big fan of Lothars on sf ^^ When I go lothars I usually build manta butter bot lothars bkb buriza, but it depends from game to game.

When it comes to the pushstrat u wrote down, I would say it's much too weak at the lanes. The synergy of the team is not that great, and it clearly lacks in stuns. Next lesson at picking school will be about picking a pushstrat or sum while tricking the opponents that you are picking something else! I will take the time to pick a whole teams heroes by myself while you guys pick the opponents! But more about this tonight or tomorrow!
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IShottheSheriff
September 22nd 2009 at 15:16 - Quote - Report
My question got unanswered :(( Np, I still love you!
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SSJ
September 22nd 2009 at 16:14 - Quote - Report
Loda i wanted to ask can you write about what you think about the new version 6.63 thanks in advance :D
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Theo
September 22nd 2009 at 18:46 - Quote - Report
ahh, Loda thanks for your reply regarding my SF comment, but the truth is I haven't seen replies of your SF on the internet replay sites in a long time. I was also confused when you said you go lothar/manta etc etc. I always see the "pros" like good European players that play SF always go blink dagger. When you were in SK you went blink dagger and misery usually goes blink dagger as well! Also, is your item build you wrote down regarding 6.63? as in what items you would get now if you played SF? or just in general. I'm curious about the item build that would be used in 6.63/6.63b Thanks!
Cheers!
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Marek
September 22nd 2009 at 20:15 - Quote - Report
I really like this "picking school", but I have another idea that you may find interesting. This is my concept:
you pick a replay, that is in your opinion a very balanced game (in picks for example) and then simple analyse picks & bans (what should they have picked insted of X, what the have forgotten to ban and so on).
It may be much harder to do, because every team has it's own picking way, but I think I (and others ofc :D) could learn a lot from it.
GL & HF !
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Dmauji
September 23rd 2009 at 00:28 - Quote - Report
Eh a better push strat, imo would be Rhasta,bane, Chaos knight, naga and WD. Now before you people Call me a noob for saying such things hear me out. Loda mentioned Weak lanes, and poor sync with that last guys, strategy but i dont find much in this one.

Lanes would be (Scourge side)

Naga, bane top
Rhasta mid
WD, Ck bot

I mean bane probably isnt the best babysit but i find it suitable, between Net/nightmare

as far as team sycnhs go i think its great. Imagine pushing a lane, Ck ulti, naga mirrow, rhasta ward? that would take down towers fast, not to mention naga can ulti to sleep the oppenont while they take tower or rax. Considered Naga's Sleep IS HUGE

While Ganking also Naga could net, rhasta ward around the person. Bane and rhasta bot have holds, which help alot with ck and naga illusion. not to mention rhasa and bane alone have mass disable, through Witch doctor in there with chain stun and maledict, it be quite chaotic. now people might say theres easy counters to such things, like maybe tide hunters ulti or silencer or somekind of big aoe spells. but thats what bans are foR! I hope this was innovative enough loda!
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Oster
September 23rd 2009 at 11:00 - Quote - Report
i think the problem with playing a pusher strat is that if the other team notices they pick pitlord and ezalor or sth like that and its over. id pick something like
abba firstpick
axe, warlock next
brood, furion for last picks.

maybe axe could skip tower and push it very fast.
and the first 3 picks are totally common and noone will see what you wanna do.
bans would be bane rhasta TC and ES.
the many summons would burst the ES ultimate too much
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Qoj
September 24th 2009 at 11:08 - Quote - Report
this is not what i tought you would do when u said "picking school". i tought you would come with tips on how to think when picking and banning and not analys that picks and bans we do. anyway good analys
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O.0
December 21st 2009 at 11:07 - Quote - Report
erh, wtf, why are all the other posts in this blog deleted? this is the "current" one, like you haven't blogged since september oO
buggy dingblog?
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ZDDDD
December 22nd 2009 at 18:35 - Quote - Report
Doin this you prove that you were just a dota "idol" and not the good player 95% of your fans thought u were =)
but its the truth.
good luck with ur life!
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MrNeo
December 23rd 2009 at 19:02 - Quote - Report
First I say I'm stupid about English>"
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MrNeo
December 23rd 2009 at 19:43 - Quote - Report
I'm a big big big fan of Loda. You will a legend in my heart :D I DON'T CARE ANYONE THINK ABOUT YOU.Loda is a best Merry Christmas
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Dnk
December 26th 2009 at 22:00 - Quote - Report
bans: shaker, levi, razor, panda
picks: krob mid, naga + wl top(if sentinel), visage bot, enigma jungle. Wl starts... them naga ult... enigma get a really nice position... would it be a nice push team?
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Kevinsalu2
January 7th 2010 at 07:10 - Quote - Report
what happened to the other posts?
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Brallan
January 7th 2010 at 08:41 - Quote - Report
you should play dotapickup :)
would be fun to meet you in an inhouse!
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Charlie zhang
January 11th 2010 at 10:54 - Quote - Report
I'm one of hundreds of fans of yours.I will always support you,forever.
During this time,you have got some trouble about dota,including how to play well in this edition.But I believe you will play better with some efforts.You're still the best dota player in the world,I think.
I heard that you would leave from Fnatic with your guys.I hope you and your guys get good chance soon.
I think you will give us perfect performances soon.

good luck to you~

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:'(
January 12th 2010 at 18:11 - Quote - Report
loda, i srsly cried when i read ur moving to HoN
WHY!?
WHYY????!!
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KvaDrug
January 14th 2010 at 21:33 - Quote - Report
loda noob! He was one.

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