Smart or Skilled?

March 15th 2010 at 00:11 by Loda

Ok so I had a pretty interesting discussion with bogdan the other day. Usually when the two of us get together to share some quality lovetime we end up discussing some part of DotA, and this time we discussed the kind of players there are, and the difference between some of the high lvl dotaplayers out there. We both agreed that there are two kind of players; Smart and Skilled.

Of course it's not that black and white with some players being only smart or only skilled, but it's easier to put them in two different groups. I will write down some stuff about each of the groups, but first I'll just list a couple of players that I think suits best in one or the other. Since I am not that into the asian scene I'll just list the ones from Europe and America that comes to mind, and maybe you guys can add some names of your own if you think im right in what I write.

Smart: So what deifnes a smart player? Well as the name states it's someone who's smart (No shit? :D), but what I mean is that they think through every move the make. Their farming, ganging and fighting is defined by what they know is the smartest in theory. A smart player is a person who skills a hero in a certain way just because it should be the best way to utilize the hero in the game. When it comes to itemchoices the smart player will go for what is absolutely the best for the hero and the team. For example a smart bm will always go for necro 3 since it works well with the pig/bird and then BoT to easier gang the lanes with ultimate. If you watch LightOfHeaven play Bm you will realise that when he throws axes to dmg heroes he often(if not always) also hits a couple of creeps or neutrals just to utilize the power of axes to its fullest. The smart player knows what is the best, but things doesn't come as easy for them. They often need play more to reach the same lvl as the skilled player but when they do it's a very scary player to face since they play it safe, smart and use each hero in the way that's right 90% of the time.

Maelk

Bogdan (had to be mentioned!)

LightOfHeaven

Fear

Puppey

Skilled: The skilled player is the kind of guy that does not give a shit to what people say is the right build or in what kind of way you should play. These players are genuine players that has a love for the game and for them it's as easy to play dota as it is to ride a bike! Sometimes they know that in theory their choice is the wrong one, but it just feels right and usually pays off into a godlike moment :) Vigoss is the obvious choice as this kind of player. How many times didn't vigoss go on a suicide run just to grab that kill? Often he would even get out of an impossible position where no one even saw what happened ^^ Some players evolve into smart players just to better help the team, because you need to keep in mind that without a couple of smart players that reads the game in the right way to help you do those crazy moves it woldn't happen. I for one was never a big fan of Vigoss, more of those who played around him and made it all work out in the masterpiece that was their playstyle!

Vigoss

PGG

Kuroky

Dendi

Misery

So where would you put me? Where would you put your favourite player? Just comment and I'll see if we have the same ideas =)

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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 00:39 - Quote - Report
ur both =)
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Nekz
March 15th 2010 at 01:10 - Quote - Report
More skilled I'd say... Although you have a pretty smart gameplay too.
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Loda
March 15th 2010 at 02:00 - Quote - Report
Haha me and bogdan decided that im a skilled player ^^ I could be the smart one, but I just decide not to listen to that stupid voice in my head that tells me what to do! I guess it's in my rebellious way of living :P
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Jens
March 15th 2010 at 03:42 - Quote - Report
Tjosan. Jag måste säga att Playmate är ju så sjukt duktig, han passar in på båda IMO. Han hade också vunnit på most angry player! : ))))
Du hade väl mest funkat som skilled player... fast om man kollar på replayes så farmar du ju sjukt bra så det hör väl ihop med smart ^^
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Tooots
March 15th 2010 at 03:50 - Quote - Report
for me you are a skilled player as we can see on that youtube video your crazy moves in SK-gaming era. :D
about others players: smarts: Ducky, miggel, Synd, Demon many others, but those crossed my mind.
skilled: merlini, babyknight, playmate just to name a few.
yeah that is IMHO of course. :P
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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 05:25 - Quote - Report
Hi,Loda,I think u r a good smart player!!!:)
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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 05:26 - Quote - Report
is loda the smart type or skilled type?
imo loda is neither smart nor skilled. loda=farm noob
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Misiak
March 15th 2010 at 06:12 - Quote - Report
Haha nice topic...its kinda hard coz i think u r smart yet skilled! :D
but if i hv to categorize you, i honestly think that u r a Smart player..coz somehow, u've always ended having the item u need for ur team, farm when u have to, gank when u have to, play smart..the easiest way to see it, is no other than a match against MYM when u play Sven..everytime(or almost) u gank, it ended up with ur team score a kill(s)..the timing is impeccable imo...

for other Smart : Ducky joliE MaNia

and the other Skilled : H4nn1 AngeL Merlini PlaymatE

Wish luck to DDT!!
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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 08:47 - Quote - Report
MIGGEL=SMART ADD HIM PLX KK THX BB
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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 09:52 - Quote - Report
well in my opinion u are more skilled than smart...u do what u have to do (carry the team) so that covers the smart part but other than that i can tell u live the game from the first to last second.....the better quote for u would be "" Sometimes they know that in theory their choice is the wrong one, but it just feels right and usually pays off into a godlike moment :)"""
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Rofl
March 15th 2010 at 10:02 - Quote - Report
i think you're a skill player...smart player-merlini angel...skill player-demon azen
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Dotseven
March 15th 2010 at 14:06 - Quote - Report
How about Merlini?
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Sno.0p
March 15th 2010 at 14:15 - Quote - Report
Nice rly.
but sometimes the smart's Micro Fail him ...
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Rapid
March 15th 2010 at 14:16 - Quote - Report
skilled ofcourse, but your experience makes you smart. :)
I would say 70%/30%
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Chris
March 15th 2010 at 14:19 - Quote - Report
asian example: Smart (skilled) player.
when i watch yamatehs heros im always like wtf. all looks very calculated (watch his old bkb tinker replays) but still risky.
I think hes a smart player because he plays what he knows and not what he feels :)
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Optional
March 15th 2010 at 14:26 - Quote - Report
well as of late.
i consider u as "SKILLED" player..
sometimes u do suicide actions and take kills :)
definitely skilled.
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XPsychonut
March 15th 2010 at 15:44 - Quote - Report
Skilled no doubt.
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H4nyyy
March 15th 2010 at 15:46 - Quote - Report
skilled player :)
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Maaz
March 15th 2010 at 16:24 - Quote - Report
Weird that everyone thinks differently. Since you joined TLT i have always felt you played more like a smart player. Although you are a good farmer and can pull of some crazy moves (typical qualities of a skilled player) the effectiveness of your game depends on your experience. Experienced player = smart player (99% of the time anyways :D)

Theres no black and white with you, but if I had to choose one id definitely go for smart.
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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 16:29 - Quote - Report
When you were in SK i felt that you were the both skilled and smart. But prolly too many powerhouse in DDT therefore your skill dropped.

Skilled: 13abyknight, Merlini, Freezer, Playmate, ImbaQ, Slahser, Lacoste, Travka(6.48 era)

Smart: Hex0r, Jolie, Stalcat, Silentcat, Kirai, Ro-Coco, ppasarel, Kirai.

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Six
March 15th 2010 at 16:38 - Quote - Report
You are a smart player imo. Easy choice because I'm no fan of Ducky, so if Misery is the skilled one (obviously), then u would have to be the one pulling the strings over there in DDT.

Puppey has got to be the smartest player out there, to agree with Merlini. Skillwise it would still have to be my man Kuro, even though Playmate has done a lot of crazy shit lately.
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Guest
March 15th 2010 at 17:11 - Quote - Report
Skilled - Demon!!
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DAJDO
March 15th 2010 at 18:23 - Quote - Report
must add NS in smart ! : )
and Loda is a Pure SKILLZ !
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Emilio Novis
March 15th 2010 at 18:44 - Quote - Report
I think u are most of the time a skilled player, and yes Bogdan a smart one. For me the one who have almost the perfect balance between skill and smart is Tofu. Also he is my favorite player :D.
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Ilija
March 15th 2010 at 18:44 - Quote - Report
Loda back in the days u were as skilled as vigoss him self, now judge by the way u play ur SF i would say u are more smart player than a skilled one, but ur brain capacity is there and u proved ur self so many times, and to me u are a LEGEND "GOD-L" !
and about vigoss, he was skilled all right but his ingame IQ was superior, that was the main difference between him and u and H4nni and Merlini...
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Xealot
March 15th 2010 at 18:49 - Quote - Report
Your playstyle is more of a skilled player for sure. Being tasked into captaincy of teams and picking in drafts made your gameplay sense smarter. It is also interesting to note, imho, that skilled players get much much more rave ("respect") in the "loving" dota community, and smart players get flamed when their tactics do not work out. Btw, loda, you considering FF13?
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MigelL
March 15th 2010 at 18:50 - Quote - Report
Hi :)
first i would like to say how i feel it :)
so loda used to be for me great player in sk days i really liked him(you)
now im losting this grace :( dont know why...
i think you are some of each other, really skilled but too smart ;)

and at last im very interesated in your opinion about my favourite players: AKKE and SMILE
how do you evaluate them ?
if its possible could you answer me pls? thx :)
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Spawn
March 15th 2010 at 18:55 - Quote - Report
I think the classification goes much deeper than this
You have:
-smart : players that do the best things, usually the boring ones.
(Merlini, Maelk, Mania)
-cunning(25% skilled, 75% smart): players that mostly follow the rules, but they kinda have their own moments.
(Lakoste, Drayich, Playmate)
-mixed( 50%/50%): imho the best category. Players that usually follow the rules and know the advanced theorycrafting, but they also use their awareness to create unusual builds, and think outside the box. (Loda, Fear, Ducky)
-entertaining(25%/75%):players that usually play extravagant, that mostly pluck out entertaining replays, and enjoyable moments. (Azen, Misery, Smile)
-skilled: the class that was born on the map. Basically they decide the game-rules, they make their own game. Very entertaining but reckless
(Kuroky, Vigoss)


So this might be the right choices. M-joy.
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Clickrush
March 15th 2010 at 19:01 - Quote - Report
you are no doubt a skilled player, but you make more and more smart choices IMO.

i like what you said in your blog: the smart ones train their fingers more and more while the skilled ones make better choices with more expirience.

but at the same time you have to know your strengths and concentrate on them.
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Bogdan
March 15th 2010 at 19:31 - Quote - Report
When Loda and I discussed this we also agreed that (once again this is generally speaking) support/gank players tend to be more of the "smart" kind and the carry players are usually "skilled players".

Regarding Smile I'd say he was a really good balance of smart and skilled, but then again I've always been a fanboy of his. Also I'd say Akke is more of a skilled player than a smart one.
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Nephren
March 15th 2010 at 20:37 - Quote - Report
I believe you could resolve deeper into separating the players.For example there are smart strategists and pickers, and smart clutch player with the best timing, positioning etc. Likewise there are natural talented perceptive players (H4nn1, misery) and all out - i kill for the fame- players like vigoss and Kuroky, who usually get all the attention.
These days you play more smart-like, because this version demands it. You can't force 4 players evolve their game around you because your team will fail!
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Gold
March 15th 2010 at 21:43 - Quote - Report
NS smart or skilled player ?? ^^
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Therg
March 15th 2010 at 22:04 - Quote - Report
IMO you Loda was more of a skilled player a couple of years ago, but kinda evolved more towards smart now days.
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SToRM
March 15th 2010 at 22:29 - Quote - Report
LODA,YOU ARE BEST! SMART PLAYERS-MAELK MANIA AND SKILL PLAYERS-KUROKY PLAYMATE
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Electrika
March 15th 2010 at 22:41 - Quote - Report
At this moment you are more smart, then skilled, cause u play a less, but your old expirience compensates this)
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Aruno
March 16th 2010 at 00:23 - Quote - Report
Think of it this way, If you have many preset plans that have been proven to work highly effectively, then most likely your a smart player.

Also if you don't have too many preset plans and are player who revels to play on the edge of danger, to pull off amazing performances born from instinct and impulse. You are a skilled player. I think we all play a bit of each, but often have a dominate force that drives our game play.
To me (smart / smart is similar to mind dominant /body dominant).
I think this would be an interesting subject to research more Loda, like find out if there is personality/behavioral patterns between play styles. I'm sure there is a connection in ability to hold concentration and speed of image recognition is highly prevalent in skilled players. As apposed to ability to think throughly and completely on subjects to present a full and well thought out dissertation.

Anyways
gg
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Loda
March 16th 2010 at 01:00 - Quote - Report
Ofc I don't actually believe that you can divide all players into these simple groups :D It was just something I put together before I went to sleep :) I believe there is much more to learn if I would actually put my mind into it... But I'm a slacker no reason to deny that xD
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Bart13t
March 16th 2010 at 03:41 - Quote - Report
I just wanted to let you know I am a huge fan and can't wait to see you play for BTN in HoN as soon as you do let me know so I can cast.

-Bart13t :D
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Babeknight
March 16th 2010 at 05:37 - Quote - Report
skilled player you are
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StRAikEr-_-
March 16th 2010 at 06:26 - Quote - Report
4444
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Guest
March 16th 2010 at 08:53 - Quote - Report
Loda = Smart player :D
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Guest
March 16th 2010 at 10:52 - Quote - Report
Like you said its not black and white its more like % based xD
You, Kuroky = 60% skill / 40 % smart
Kev, PGG = 70 % skill / 30 % smart
Vigoss, Not_DJRASTA_BG xD = 80 % skill / 20 % smart
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Guest
March 16th 2010 at 11:13 - Quote - Report
You were cocky skilled mofo, now you are smart player :P
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Glow_gothic
March 16th 2010 at 12:14 - Quote - Report
omg i was talking with my friend & he is the carry of our clan as well, we put same types for the players, but for me i guess smart player is better in 1vs1 lane & 5vs5 fight cause the smart player will calculate all movements, for me "puppey" is the smartest player. but kuroky is the craziest EVER! loda you are not skilled or smart either, YOU are a huge experience of DOTA playing styles & strategies.
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Kuroky
March 16th 2010 at 12:55 - Quote - Report
Fuck u loda, I'm both. me > you + vigoss combined.
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Tcy
March 16th 2010 at 13:32 - Quote - Report
well said Loda

smart is harder than skill itself
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Guest
March 16th 2010 at 15:32 - Quote - Report
lol kuroky so cocky

hexOr, smart/skilled??
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Kadaghar
March 16th 2010 at 16:05 - Quote - Report
Well I think your are a skilled one, but you have a good base on the smart, in my opinion your the best player I have seen, probably thats why I´m an admirer of your skill
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Wurst_case
March 16th 2010 at 17:20 - Quote - Report
asking myself why all these guys here call kuro rather skilled than smart, read so much stuff he wrote or say that i came to the opinion he thinks a lot about dota and nevertheless he does some nice action ingame he has some good overview and so on. maintaining my opinion he needs this stuff to be leader or picker as he was mym
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Ma3lk
March 16th 2010 at 18:02 - Quote - Report
Hi Lodalicious...

you are 60% skill - 40% Smart

I need know what happen with vigoss...

His last game was on the map 6.64.... Vigoss vs Mix

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HateSpark
March 16th 2010 at 18:09 - Quote - Report
I found someone playing with your IWin4Aids account on Garena Iranian DotA Room 2 !! :))
I just loled cause he had one of misery's too .
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Guest
March 16th 2010 at 18:14 - Quote - Report
Merlini, for me is both. Watch how smart he is back in his Zeus days. And this time in Nirvana, he is showing he is skilled as he often plays the solo lane and plays carry/semi carry heroes.
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Guest
March 16th 2010 at 23:11 - Quote - Report
loda is a smarter than kuroky for sure....i feel kuroky is kinda better in juking. :)
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Phoenix
March 17th 2010 at 00:36 - Quote - Report
Very nice read for me Loda. Thanks for writing and sharing this. :) Oh and btw, I think you're a skilled player. :D However, I find it a little itchy that you didn't mention Merlini (smart). Also, my love for smart players >>> skilled players.
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Loda
March 17th 2010 at 03:08 - Quote - Report
The reason to why I didn''t mention merlini was because I couldn't decide which category to put him in! :D
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Guest
March 17th 2010 at 03:45 - Quote - Report
girls on the logo are hot
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Smart n Skilled
March 17th 2010 at 04:01 - Quote - Report
Demon goes into smart, he knows how to play all roles to it's fullest and just rapes.
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Nadir
March 17th 2010 at 10:56 - Quote - Report
you are skilled ;-)
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Troll King
March 17th 2010 at 12:16 - Quote - Report
i never knew playing dota attracts girls O.o
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Miley
March 17th 2010 at 13:22 - Quote - Report
I always thought the same thing about play styles. Those that play with emphasis on wit and outsmarting the opponent, and those that play with raw intuition and the reliance of previous experience.

Smart players are usually the most dedicated ones in DotA, at the same time, lots of them are unsung heroes, the underrated.

Azen - One hell of a thinker; can probably think 4 steps ahead of his opponent. Not to mention having mad skills as well. Damn good player this guy.
Maelk - To be the captain of one of the most veteran teams for so long needs some ingenuity. This is Maelk. Though MYM seems to be in a slump lately, this guy has provided the DotA scene stability when it comes to stragety.
pgg - The best russian player next to Vigoss imho, his plays style really reflects one a thinker.

Skilled players I feel, are sort of prone to retarded moves and epic fails due to their susceptibility to Rambo-ing, but these guys often show the most uber moves ever conceived. These guys tend to be flamers and the shittalkers, but boy-oh-boy can they back up their shit-talking. These guys, I feel fit the category:

Ve!n -
MusHi
Lacoste_
heXOr
MiSeRy-


An observation I made was that the skilled players usually get more famous than the smart ones. The smart ones are sort of like the playmakers in basketball, they make the plays, calculations, assists, but they often aren't really payed attention to (other than trying to learn how to play support, who really does focus on support players when we watch replays?) Of course it IS possible that these guys are so good at what they're doing or have been around for so long that they get recognized as well- like Steve Nash or Jason Kidd perhaps; reversely, the skilled players are like the Kobe Bryants and Michael Jordans. Their raw talent is awe-inspiring. Coupled with knowledge and theory holy shit are these guys IMBA.

Basically it boils down to something like Nature and Nurture. Some guys are naturally good, while some guys get so good that they become even better than the skilled players I feel. But when skilled players get to know their shit and theory-- they evolve into the powerhouses.

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Whysopanda
March 17th 2010 at 18:02 - Quote - Report
Om jag ska va ärlig, hade lagt på "Skilled" inte för att du inte tänker lr så, fast din starkaste attribute är din skill, fast går helt enkelt inte och bara säga så, det är verkligen inte svart och vitt, det är ju så mycket som gör dig spelaren som du är fast, om det någon som vet bäst om det så är det du :)

Loda>Vigoss>Kuroky!
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Guest
March 17th 2010 at 21:57 - Quote - Report
smart!
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HuNTeR
March 18th 2010 at 16:47 - Quote - Report
first of all i've always been ur fan in both good & bad days for u
i think u r the smart guy having denied ur smartness for a long time cuz u always loved to be the player that shines in a game . . . that was cuz of ur skills . . . but nowadays u r coming back to ur real nature smartness cuz many skilled players ( more skilled than u :P ) r in dota right now . . .

u r smart, u can play many heroes & u always INNOVATE

love u LODA the INNOVATOR
have confidence like always cuz u r the BEST ever
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Boonsley
March 19th 2010 at 03:33 - Quote - Report
rofl - noob!
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Guest
March 19th 2010 at 07:07 - Quote - Report
???
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Guest
March 20th 2010 at 03:13 - Quote - Report
why SMART??? in second?
where are you loda!
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Guest
March 20th 2010 at 03:16 - Quote - Report
skilled definitely, more so than misery by 10x.
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HoKz
March 20th 2010 at 15:33 - Quote - Report
Loda i think skilled player pgg should be change DeMoN
haha
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Thorondor
March 22nd 2010 at 17:10 - Quote - Report
well i would say you changed:

2004/5-2008, your famous time with sk everything focused around you and you ending up farmed on godlike ;-) that was your skilled time.

but now you more smart then skilled. Imo you need to go throught skilled before you can become smart of course it's also about temper, but moslty a lot of experience is needed to become a smart player.
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Flanee
April 7th 2010 at 03:17 - Quote - Report
SKILLED no doubt of it!, u're that kind of player as u say, doesn't matter if it is total suicide, you go for it!. I remember your necro on the finals of ESWC 07 against TeG, or your broodmother against Nv. just to mention that. you can probe that you're brave skilled, and very smart too!

Hiho from arg :) (sry for bad english :( )
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Guest
April 18th 2010 at 19:07 - Quote - Report
Dude, you clearly forgot there the third type, not everyone is skilled and those who aren't skilled aren't necessarily smart making them nabs

so the groups are:
Smart
Skilled
Nabs
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Anonym
April 19th 2010 at 08:55 - Quote - Report
varför är du så himla awesome? hahhaha :D
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Chris
April 24th 2010 at 17:25 - Quote - Report
i would say you are a skilled player.. i seen alot of replays with you in ddt.. very skilled... if you were just a smart player maybe a lil more cautious... you would be FTW! lol..
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Guest
April 27th 2010 at 19:30 - Quote - Report
skilled :)
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Fardin
May 4th 2010 at 15:09 - Quote - Report
kuroky and Misery are only 17-18 years old..........
Experienc is what ? i don t like U r ..........(skilled or smart)
exp and age arent in this 2 kind player
and they are your Girlfreind :-? in up D:
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Zee Mathews
May 4th 2010 at 18:53 - Quote - Report
I am confused. can't decide whether smart or skilled so i would say 'both'. ;)

Regards

Zee Mathews
<a href="https://salonmanagersacademy.com/">The Salon Mangers Academy</a>
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Vigoss(junior)
May 13th 2010 at 07:51 - Quote - Report
ever since i started dota...have been listening about vigoss...started reading his blogs and all..and created a godlike image of himself...sometimes i wondered that is icefrog himself vigoss playing in disguise...? i expected vigoss to win everygame...for me vigoss stood on one side and the rest of the world playing against him on the other....the days of ownage in virtuous pro and ks...nobody replaces the legend for me...some players play good...but when it comes to comparison with vigoss...their good gameplays doesnt seem good enough...the legacy which vigoss shared was unparalled in the history of dota....
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Nicer Vgod fan
May 24th 2010 at 10:13 - Quote - Report
vigoss is simple imbalanced player, but my question what happen with him? any1 know what do it?
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Vigoss junior
May 28th 2010 at 20:15 - Quote - Report
vigoss got out of the ks rooster coz of his lack of form....last seen playing 1.23.
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Guest
May 31st 2010 at 19:19 - Quote - Report
i would consider u as a skilled player
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Devilnam
June 7th 2010 at 09:53 - Quote - Report
How can I show my dota skills to the world?
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Alex
June 15th 2010 at 13:34 - Quote - Report
Lazshorty is the most skilled player atm in europe..
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Guest
July 11th 2010 at 04:45 - Quote - Report
lol kuroky
loda is the best
loda=3xkuroky
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Wlid
July 26th 2010 at 12:32 - Quote - Report
skilled definitely, more so than misery by 10x.
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Guest
August 1st 2010 at 16:05 - Quote - Report
u r the most smart one :)
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Wangyichao
August 2nd 2010 at 07:50 - Quote - Report
I`m your fan I haven`t see you replay for a long time
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PDFok
August 2nd 2010 at 14:26 - Quote - Report
This is a really good read for me. Must agree that you are one of the coolest blogger I ever saw.
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Kison
August 3rd 2010 at 04:34 - Quote - Report
As a Chinese player, I know the top smart player and skilled player in china.
Smartest: P.I.S
Skilled:ZSMJ
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Büyü
August 9th 2010 at 11:43 - Quote - Report
This is a really good read for me. Must agree that you are one of the coolest blogger I ever saw.
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Essay
August 11th 2010 at 14:21 - Quote - Report
hey guys, doesn't skilled mean smart? In my opinion, it is might the same ;)
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August 20th 2010 at 09:45 - Quote - Report
I think i prefer smart. because being smart you can do things in a way that you can use your skills and be a skilled one on the other way. :D
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Poker Tables
August 25th 2010 at 17:57 - Quote - Report
For me I choose skilled.
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Essay Writing
August 27th 2010 at 10:03 - Quote - Report
Smart or Skilled? I think both... :)
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August 29th 2010 at 15:25 - Quote - Report
skilled definitely, more so than misery by 10x.
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Paris hilton perfume
August 30th 2010 at 09:59 - Quote - Report
Dude, you clearly forgot there the third type, not everyone is skilled and those who aren't skilled aren't necessarily smart making them nabs
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Halloween Contacts
August 31st 2010 at 11:13 - Quote - Report
I choose to smart, using your knowledge into your work could make you skillful. Rather than being skilled, some work requires knowledge not only skills, and that work are highly paid.

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